Posted Oct 20, 2008 at 10:03AM by Isaac C.
Listed in:
Homebrew Development,
Opinions & Analysis
Tags:
Sony,
Dark-AleX,
Dark AleX
Ó
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 After releasing their latest download stats, Dark AleX's webmaster Alek
concludes that only a minority of PSP gamers use custom firmwares:Adding downloads from Dark-AleX.org and the ones from the Network Update, here are the numbers from this last days; -17 oct 29.838 -18 oct 32.996 -19 oct 2.472 (in 3H) (unique psp's using this in 2 days, 3 hours) Maximum value calculated lately from the other releases was about 150k PSP's. So, having in mind that there are how much? 38.96M PSP's on the World
(http://vgchartz.com/), so there are only a 0,39% of the total ones
using the Network Update; we can conclude that... Meaning? Message to Sony: stop adding more security to the PSP. Any chance this has something to do with the new security system in the PSP-3000's TA-090 motherboard? Alek concludes (and I bet a lot of you agree on): So, is it a threat? No. Developers and Sony should not focus their attention/excuses on something so "small", but on more Games&&Addons for PSP, instead of making look guilty free devs like Dark_AleX. |
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17 Jumps
PSP homebrew - PSPEText v1.0
11 Jumps
PSP homebrew game - PSPlay v1.0
11 Jumps
PSP homebrew - MacroFire v3.0.10
7 Jumps
PSP homebrew - PSPedict v0.3
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PSP homebrew - MacroFire v3.0.11
48 Comments
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by nyr2k2 - 2008-10-20 |
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» seriously
The "threat" posed by hacking is so incredibly overstated.
The "threat" posed by hacking is so incredibly overstated.
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Re: shogunu - 2008-10-20 |
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» With all due respect to the CFW scene, i love these guys
While i appreciate Alek's article you gotta take into account major sites, like QJ, that also distribute CFW releases.
3.71 has more than 300.000 downloads on QJ, for example. Add to that the dark-alex numbers (about 150k maximum value) and you have about half a million downloads (maybe more if you include other large sites who host releases). Add to that the fact that many PSP's out there were cracked by friends who had previously downloaded the CFW (thus multiplying the numbers of hacked consoles without increasing the CFW download numbers). Add everything up and half a million hacked PSPs might exist out there (a truly realistic figure if you take everything into account).
Now try and look through the perspective of the developers/publishers:
It takes a huge game for the PSP to break the 1 MM sales (GOW COO for example sold less than 1.5 MM)
Out of those +500k hacked consoles even if only 100k account for loss of sales it's 10% in terms of units for the developer/publisher. And we're talking about huge games that sale big... Imagine the threat for a small dev, 100k lost to piracy is more of a "make it or break it" kinda threat.
While i appreciate Alek's article you gotta take into account major sites, like QJ, that also distribute CFW releases.
3.71 has more than 300.000 downloads on QJ, for example. Add to that the dark-alex numbers (about 150k maximum value) and you have about half a million downloads (maybe more if you include other large sites who host releases). Add to that the fact that many PSP's out there were cracked by friends who had previously downloaded the CFW (thus multiplying the numbers of hacked consoles without increasing the CFW download numbers). Add everything up and half a million hacked PSPs might exist out there (a truly realistic figure if you take everything into account).
Now try and look through the perspective of the developers/publishers:
It takes a huge game for the PSP to break the 1 MM sales (GOW COO for example sold less than 1.5 MM)
Out of those +500k hacked consoles even if only 100k account for loss of sales it's 10% in terms of units for the developer/publisher. And we're talking about huge games that sale big... Imagine the threat for a small dev, 100k lost to piracy is more of a "make it or break it" kinda threat.
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by Techni - 2008-10-20 |
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» I disagree completely.
Developers are tracking the number of downloaded PSP ISOs and they've claimed it's in the couple hundred thousands. That's a huge chunk out of their sales.
He's horribly underestimating the number of CFE users. I for one update my friend's PSPs off my memory stick. I know many people who simply don't update.
Developers are tracking the number of downloaded PSP ISOs and they've claimed it's in the couple hundred thousands. That's a huge chunk out of their sales.
He's horribly underestimating the number of CFE users. I for one update my friend's PSPs off my memory stick. I know many people who simply don't update.
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Re: FreePlay - 2008-10-20 |
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» LOL
A downloaded ISO is not a lost sale, no matter how you cut it.
If you're too cheap to buy a game, you'll probably download it. There's no sale lost because there never was a sale. It's the same nonsense the RIAA uses to justify saying that piracy is costing the recording industry money.
How can you lose money you never had in the first place?
A downloaded ISO is not a lost sale, no matter how you cut it.
If you're too cheap to buy a game, you'll probably download it. There's no sale lost because there never was a sale. It's the same nonsense the RIAA uses to justify saying that piracy is costing the recording industry money.
How can you lose money you never had in the first place?
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Re: rebel101152 - 2008-10-20 |
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» @ freeplay
for the first time i agree with you.your point is great.
for the first time i agree with you.your point is great.
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Re: Foolmonkey - 2008-10-20 |
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» yep
if you download an a game, you were probably never going to buy it anyways.
if you download an a game, you were probably never going to buy it anyways.
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Re: Silver-Tiger - 2008-10-20 |
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» ...
Although I agree with your point, Freeplay, you forget that someone who dls a game will *probably*
not buy that game. So they do not loose real money(because there was no sale like you described it),
but they are loosing "potential money", money that they would get if "Mister.game.Downloader" didn't dled the game.
Although I agree with your point, Freeplay, you forget that someone who dls a game will *probably*
not buy that game. So they do not loose real money(because there was no sale like you described it),
but they are loosing "potential money", money that they would get if "Mister.game.Downloader" didn't dled the game.
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Re: Torch - 2008-10-20 |
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» @FreePlay
Thats completely true. If it wasn't for ISOs I wouldn't even own a PSP (or 2 for that matter). If it wasn't for HDLoader Patched I wouldn't even own a PS2. If it wasn't for Chinese cartridges I wouldn't have owned any old school console.
Hell if it wasn't for BitTorrent, I wouldn't even own a modern PC.
Thats completely true. If it wasn't for ISOs I wouldn't even own a PSP (or 2 for that matter). If it wasn't for HDLoader Patched I wouldn't even own a PS2. If it wasn't for Chinese cartridges I wouldn't have owned any old school console.
Hell if it wasn't for BitTorrent, I wouldn't even own a modern PC.
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Re: FreePlay - 2008-10-21 |
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» ...
'but they are loosing "potential money", money that they would get if "Mister.game.Downloader" didn't dled the game. '
There aren't only two options here:
1. buy the game
2. download it
There's also these:
3. don't buy it
4. rent it
#3 + no sale was lost. #4 + no sale was lost, because money from rentals goes to the rental company. they already bought the game.
In all four cases, no sales are lost!
'but they are loosing "potential money", money that they would get if "Mister.game.Downloader" didn't dled the game. '
There aren't only two options here:
1. buy the game
2. download it
There's also these:
3. don't buy it
4. rent it
#3 + no sale was lost. #4 + no sale was lost, because money from rentals goes to the rental company. they already bought the game.
In all four cases, no sales are lost!
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by akadewboy - 2008-10-20 |
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» That's nice
Now people are going to start linking to this article as an excuse to download games.
Now people are going to start linking to this article as an excuse to download games.
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Re: _YOUR_MOM_ - 2008-10-20 |
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» You're not a pirate?
You must be one of the kind of those homebrewers that says
"I download the iso, if I like the game I'll buy it." followed by
"I only use my psp for homebrew, like playing nes, snes, gba, sega or whatever..."
But you know what? The homebrew that you've mentioned is still piracy you download a *****ken game that has copyrights 'nd shít you know?
You're not a homebrew user but just like others (including me) PIRATES. End of story.
You must be one of the kind of those homebrewers that says
"I download the iso, if I like the game I'll buy it." followed by
"I only use my psp for homebrew, like playing nes, snes, gba, sega or whatever..."
But you know what? The homebrew that you've mentioned is still piracy you download a *****ken game that has copyrights 'nd shít you know?
You're not a homebrew user but just like others (including me) PIRATES. End of story.
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Re: 73N5H1 - 2008-10-20 |
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» Ninjas FTW
I'm more of a ninja kinda guy myself...
I'm more of a ninja kinda guy myself...
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Re: Torch - 2008-10-20 |
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» LOL
I download the game, and if I like it, it remains on my Memory Stick, otherwise I press Triangle and Delete.
I download the game, and if I like it, it remains on my Memory Stick, otherwise I press Triangle and Delete.
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by StingBlah - 2008-10-20 |
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» pirates
FTW.
FTW.
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by zzk2001 - 2008-10-20 |
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» How i see it.
I don't wish to start anything on this BUT this is how i see it.
1. i would say about 15% of all PSP users are on a CFW
2. About 10% on CFW download there Games
3. Maybe about 1-2% will Buy the Game IF they like it.
in short i am 100% sure game makes do in some way lose money BUT in some way CFW helps them as well.
the truth is without CFW PSP sells would be so Low that there would be NO good games for it, it's been proven time and time again Once a system is able to play backups the system Sells alot more, If 360 used the HD-DVD in the System it would have Never sold as Many systems because you would not beable to backup your games etc etc.
But then again this is only the View point of one person so don't take it So seriously.
I don't wish to start anything on this BUT this is how i see it.
1. i would say about 15% of all PSP users are on a CFW
2. About 10% on CFW download there Games
3. Maybe about 1-2% will Buy the Game IF they like it.
in short i am 100% sure game makes do in some way lose money BUT in some way CFW helps them as well.
the truth is without CFW PSP sells would be so Low that there would be NO good games for it, it's been proven time and time again Once a system is able to play backups the system Sells alot more, If 360 used the HD-DVD in the System it would have Never sold as Many systems because you would not beable to backup your games etc etc.
But then again this is only the View point of one person so don't take it So seriously.
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by nyr2k2 - 2008-10-20 |
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» well
The only reason I invest any money at all in my PSP is because of CFW. I bought my PSP when it came out, played it for a month or two, and then put it down once I realized there were only about 3 games worth playing. Were it not for CFW, my PSP would have either been sold on eBay or sitting in my closet collecting dust.
Seriously... If we saw more than 2 good games per year, people wouldn't be so tempted by CFW. And the lack of good games is not caused by piracy--PSP's game library was seriously lacking well before the proliferation of m33 firmwares.
Look at the sales numbers for the better PSP games: God of War (1.2m), Liberty City Stories (5m), Vice City Stories (2.75m), MHF2 (2.25), etc... Put together a halfway decent game and it will sell very well!
There is absolutely no doubt that piracy cuts into the profits of game developers. However, the degree to which it affects their bottom line is drastically overstated. Downloading movies/songs didn't kill either the movie industry nor the music industry, and piracy never has and never will kill the video game industry (or the PSP in particular).
The only reason I invest any money at all in my PSP is because of CFW. I bought my PSP when it came out, played it for a month or two, and then put it down once I realized there were only about 3 games worth playing. Were it not for CFW, my PSP would have either been sold on eBay or sitting in my closet collecting dust.
Seriously... If we saw more than 2 good games per year, people wouldn't be so tempted by CFW. And the lack of good games is not caused by piracy--PSP's game library was seriously lacking well before the proliferation of m33 firmwares.
Look at the sales numbers for the better PSP games: God of War (1.2m), Liberty City Stories (5m), Vice City Stories (2.75m), MHF2 (2.25), etc... Put together a halfway decent game and it will sell very well!
There is absolutely no doubt that piracy cuts into the profits of game developers. However, the degree to which it affects their bottom line is drastically overstated. Downloading movies/songs didn't kill either the movie industry nor the music industry, and piracy never has and never will kill the video game industry (or the PSP in particular).
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by DrWho1980 - 2008-10-20 |
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» You win some, You lose some...
I'll keep it simple, we have 5 PSP systems in our home... all on CFW. Without CFW we would have had maybe one!
CFW means that people have an extra reason to buy a PSP. Yeah, many iso's will be downloaded... who can honestly say they heve never done so?
but if we're being honest then everyone should be honest. Do all there PC's in the Sony Company and all there PC's at home completly run on 100% legid software? I'm sure they have coppied programs on there PC's, they probably use unregistred coppies of shareware programs like winzip.
Besides that, if you see the amount of game released and how much they cost. Then evaluate how good it is or how hard it was to make(don't forget that many games are based on already existing engines). You would as soon as me see that many are not worth the money!
I wouldn't buy many games if there wasn't a cfw since
1) I wouldn't have a PSP
2) I wouldn't want to risk giving money for *****ty games
3) My budget doesn't allow it
bottom line, sure they would have sold a few more games to the average PSP user, but the amount of PSP users would be a lot lower so in the end they don't lose a thing.
it's about time they realize this
(if they don't already)
I'll keep it simple, we have 5 PSP systems in our home... all on CFW. Without CFW we would have had maybe one!
CFW means that people have an extra reason to buy a PSP. Yeah, many iso's will be downloaded... who can honestly say they heve never done so?
but if we're being honest then everyone should be honest. Do all there PC's in the Sony Company and all there PC's at home completly run on 100% legid software? I'm sure they have coppied programs on there PC's, they probably use unregistred coppies of shareware programs like winzip.
Besides that, if you see the amount of game released and how much they cost. Then evaluate how good it is or how hard it was to make(don't forget that many games are based on already existing engines). You would as soon as me see that many are not worth the money!
I wouldn't buy many games if there wasn't a cfw since
1) I wouldn't have a PSP
2) I wouldn't want to risk giving money for *****ty games
3) My budget doesn't allow it
bottom line, sure they would have sold a few more games to the average PSP user, but the amount of PSP users would be a lot lower so in the end they don't lose a thing.
it's about time they realize this
(if they don't already)
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by mohaas05 - 2008-10-20 |
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» ...
The game companies never lost sales. They lost POTENTIAL sales. They were gambling that you would go out and purchase that game.
The game companies never lost sales. They lost POTENTIAL sales. They were gambling that you would go out and purchase that game.
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Re: AbysmalTech - 2008-10-21 |
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» Again...
that is the argument in itself. What is "potential" How do we define it in relation to their sales? Are they taking into account the survey responses of internal affairs in asking "Would you buy this or that game?" Or do they actually walk the streets and question random people of society?
The thing is you can't argue about potential when its a lost factor due to no way of explain ing it. Why can't it be explained? Well, there are no specific facts given as to what audience of people are these so-called 'potential buyers'. I read some saying that no money is lost when there wasn't a sale in the first place. Then I read comeback statements about the lost of sales was the potential sale. Are these not really the same? No sale made because a game was not ever going to be purchased is truly not a lost potential sale. What was potential about that? I take that most people have alraedy made up their mind at the time of buying their psp (and probably before then) whether or not they will invest in bought games. The only reason its even an argument about potential is because the person simply didn't buy the game. Not the fact that they possibly wouldn't have ever bought it in the first place. And that my friends, is exactly why the statement holds no grounds.
that is the argument in itself. What is "potential" How do we define it in relation to their sales? Are they taking into account the survey responses of internal affairs in asking "Would you buy this or that game?" Or do they actually walk the streets and question random people of society?
The thing is you can't argue about potential when its a lost factor due to no way of explain ing it. Why can't it be explained? Well, there are no specific facts given as to what audience of people are these so-called 'potential buyers'. I read some saying that no money is lost when there wasn't a sale in the first place. Then I read comeback statements about the lost of sales was the potential sale. Are these not really the same? No sale made because a game was not ever going to be purchased is truly not a lost potential sale. What was potential about that? I take that most people have alraedy made up their mind at the time of buying their psp (and probably before then) whether or not they will invest in bought games. The only reason its even an argument about potential is because the person simply didn't buy the game. Not the fact that they possibly wouldn't have ever bought it in the first place. And that my friends, is exactly why the statement holds no grounds.
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by Miclowgunman - 2008-10-20 |
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» enjoyment denied!
The bottom line is that companies do not want you to enjoy their work without paying them first. If it was up to them, the would make it illegal to borrow your friends games!
This is how a lot of companies compensate for a game that is too crappy or too short to buy. If a game is so long that your friend gets pissed that you've had his game too long or you have to rent it five times to beat it, chances are you'll buy the game. And if the game is utter crap on silicon, chances are your game got downloaded as an iso because we were board and hand nothing better to do.
I buy the games I feel are worth my money. (FF: CC FTW!)
The bottom line is that companies do not want you to enjoy their work without paying them first. If it was up to them, the would make it illegal to borrow your friends games!
This is how a lot of companies compensate for a game that is too crappy or too short to buy. If a game is so long that your friend gets pissed that you've had his game too long or you have to rent it five times to beat it, chances are you'll buy the game. And if the game is utter crap on silicon, chances are your game got downloaded as an iso because we were board and hand nothing better to do.
I buy the games I feel are worth my money. (FF: CC FTW!)
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Re: FreePlay - 2008-10-21 |
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» ...
"If it was up to them, the would make it illegal to borrow your friends games!"
And they're damn sure trying to do that, through DRM...
"If it was up to them, the would make it illegal to borrow your friends games!"
And they're damn sure trying to do that, through DRM...
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by ilovepsp - 2008-10-20 |
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» Alex cutom firmwares not a threat to sony
I have a pspslim 2000 but the buttons on the front above the screen does not work anymore and i dont have a clue why? i can listen to music watch videos play certain iso games and psx iso games but because the start,select,home,volume butuns dont work game freezes every time i press home. Any way i need to get a new psp but i dont know if i should get psp3000 pecause its not yet known if it could be hacked yet. so come on Dark Alex do your magic i need to know soon because i liked the screen of 3000, but if it cant be hacked then theres no point of me buying it because the only reason i love psp is because of CFW. And BTW sony is taking the piss by increasing more security, why the F dont they make it legall so we can buy the games we want to play on psp, like they should sell arcade games for like £5 each or something, I woul pay £50 for hyper streetfighter 2 turbo anniversary collection. LOL
I have a pspslim 2000 but the buttons on the front above the screen does not work anymore and i dont have a clue why? i can listen to music watch videos play certain iso games and psx iso games but because the start,select,home,volume butuns dont work game freezes every time i press home. Any way i need to get a new psp but i dont know if i should get psp3000 pecause its not yet known if it could be hacked yet. so come on Dark Alex do your magic i need to know soon because i liked the screen of 3000, but if it cant be hacked then theres no point of me buying it because the only reason i love psp is because of CFW. And BTW sony is taking the piss by increasing more security, why the F dont they make it legall so we can buy the games we want to play on psp, like they should sell arcade games for like £5 each or something, I woul pay £50 for hyper streetfighter 2 turbo anniversary collection. LOL
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Re: 73N5H1 - 2008-10-20 |
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» ...
here's a perfect example from ilovepsp... and I can say the same for myself and a few friends of mine...
People are actually NOT buying the PSP3000 because it currently can't run CFW. So its complete BS to say that CFW is hurting Sony, its actually helping them. Yes I download ISOs, but just like most other people that download ISOs, I wouldn't have bought the games anyways. In fact, I wouldn't even own a PSP in the first place if there wasn't CFW. Sony can say they're losing sales all they want, but the fact is, without Dark Alex, they wouldn't have even made a hardware sale with me.
Sony, wake up! You're currently losing sales because of your new motherboard... I would have already bought a PSP3000 if the security hadn't been increased... If it isn't hacked, then I won't purchase one.
here's a perfect example from ilovepsp... and I can say the same for myself and a few friends of mine...
People are actually NOT buying the PSP3000 because it currently can't run CFW. So its complete BS to say that CFW is hurting Sony, its actually helping them. Yes I download ISOs, but just like most other people that download ISOs, I wouldn't have bought the games anyways. In fact, I wouldn't even own a PSP in the first place if there wasn't CFW. Sony can say they're losing sales all they want, but the fact is, without Dark Alex, they wouldn't have even made a hardware sale with me.
Sony, wake up! You're currently losing sales because of your new motherboard... I would have already bought a PSP3000 if the security hadn't been increased... If it isn't hacked, then I won't purchase one.
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Re: Illmatic - 2008-10-20 |
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» ...
I think you people all need to wake up and a slap in the face. It's incredible how many here live in a dreamworld and have twisted and turned reason to make things right. PSP sales that don't bring game revenue are not of interested for game developers. Even if you have 20 PSP in your household, they only one you are making happy is Sony, but not the game developers who are actually creating the majority of games for the machine.
You are not hurting Sony who's PSP was on top selling position for the past months, probably thanks to CFW.
You are hurting the third party developers that were developing games FOR YOU to play. The silly thing is everyone is admitting downloading ISO's plus complaining the lack of games. Like I mentioned in my other post I'm working as a 3d artist for an outsourcing company, I for hell wouldn't pay Sony license and royalty fees plus development cost if I'd know that the majority of the user base is getting their stuff off the internet.
As I see it, the upcoming top titles are internally supported by Sony to keep the interest in the portable. Sony is trying to make the last buck out of the sytem because it's not earning enough through licenses and royalties, hence the many handheld iterations. I don't see the promises of 2009 being a better year to be true either. Like I said 2 PSP developers who hired our company for freelance work backed out, that are 2 potential titles less and i don't think those were exceptions.
There will probably be much more Japan only titles in the future, because the PSP and it's games are actually not doing bad in it's homeland.
I think you people all need to wake up and a slap in the face. It's incredible how many here live in a dreamworld and have twisted and turned reason to make things right. PSP sales that don't bring game revenue are not of interested for game developers. Even if you have 20 PSP in your household, they only one you are making happy is Sony, but not the game developers who are actually creating the majority of games for the machine.
You are not hurting Sony who's PSP was on top selling position for the past months, probably thanks to CFW.
You are hurting the third party developers that were developing games FOR YOU to play. The silly thing is everyone is admitting downloading ISO's plus complaining the lack of games. Like I mentioned in my other post I'm working as a 3d artist for an outsourcing company, I for hell wouldn't pay Sony license and royalty fees plus development cost if I'd know that the majority of the user base is getting their stuff off the internet.
As I see it, the upcoming top titles are internally supported by Sony to keep the interest in the portable. Sony is trying to make the last buck out of the sytem because it's not earning enough through licenses and royalties, hence the many handheld iterations. I don't see the promises of 2009 being a better year to be true either. Like I said 2 PSP developers who hired our company for freelance work backed out, that are 2 potential titles less and i don't think those were exceptions.
There will probably be much more Japan only titles in the future, because the PSP and it's games are actually not doing bad in it's homeland.
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Re: ilovepsp - 2008-10-21 |
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» .
lllmatic WTF are you on about, we all know downloading games illagaly hurts the game devolopers and not sony I mentioned that there should be a system so we can all pay for it.
lllmatic WTF are you on about, we all know downloading games illagaly hurts the game devolopers and not sony I mentioned that there should be a system so we can all pay for it.
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Re: yoshi314 - 2008-10-21 |
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» piracy actually DOES harm sony
"lllmatic WTF are you on about, we all know downloading games illagaly hurts the game devolopers and not sony I mentioned that there should be a system so we can all pay for it."
this actually is totally wrong. well, piracy hurts developers, BUT it also hurts sony.
question : why do you think ps2 was the most affordable dvd player at the time of its release (1999) ? because sony hoped to make up for it with game licensing.
it's not the consoles that make the profit - it's the profit from the software.
sony is not only making consoles, and firmware for them. and SDK and devkits for developers. if that was all they did - they would have to raise the prices considerably.
sony has a lock on their gaming platform - you can only develop a game with their SDK and development/testing units by renting/buying the set from sony.
furthermore, they (sony) can deny to publish a game on a console if it does not meet their requirements (e.g. silent hill 1 barely made it on psx, because it came dangerously close to satanic motives).
sony actually makes most money off licensing their SDK/devkits to 3rd party developers who make actual games.
so - piracy hurts sony, as well as the people who made the game. game developers buy a license for the sdk and the testing hardware, make a game, and sony makes actual physical copies or throws it onto PSN and returns some profits to the developers, or something like that ( i don't know how does that work, exactly).
the point is - sony makes most money on games, because developer studios have to pay sony to obtain the development toolkits necessary to make games for psp and have sony make umd/psn release of the game.
same goes for microsoft and their xbox. think about it - an average gamer buys one console, and ~5 games for it.
which is a better source of profit?
"lllmatic WTF are you on about, we all know downloading games illagaly hurts the game devolopers and not sony I mentioned that there should be a system so we can all pay for it."
this actually is totally wrong. well, piracy hurts developers, BUT it also hurts sony.
question : why do you think ps2 was the most affordable dvd player at the time of its release (1999) ? because sony hoped to make up for it with game licensing.
it's not the consoles that make the profit - it's the profit from the software.
sony is not only making consoles, and firmware for them. and SDK and devkits for developers. if that was all they did - they would have to raise the prices considerably.
sony has a lock on their gaming platform - you can only develop a game with their SDK and development/testing units by renting/buying the set from sony.
furthermore, they (sony) can deny to publish a game on a console if it does not meet their requirements (e.g. silent hill 1 barely made it on psx, because it came dangerously close to satanic motives).
sony actually makes most money off licensing their SDK/devkits to 3rd party developers who make actual games.
so - piracy hurts sony, as well as the people who made the game. game developers buy a license for the sdk and the testing hardware, make a game, and sony makes actual physical copies or throws it onto PSN and returns some profits to the developers, or something like that ( i don't know how does that work, exactly).
the point is - sony makes most money on games, because developer studios have to pay sony to obtain the development toolkits necessary to make games for psp and have sony make umd/psn release of the game.
same goes for microsoft and their xbox. think about it - an average gamer buys one console, and ~5 games for it.
which is a better source of profit?
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Re: Illmatic - 2008-10-21 |
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» ...
Yoshi314 of course you are right that Sony hurts as well due to piracy, but it's considerably less than a third party developer would hurt. If you followed the last revenue report they didn't actually do bad in the last few months.
At least it's pretty unlikely that Sony would succumb to bankruptcy if the PSP would turn out to be a total piracy disaster and die a slow death. It's true that console developers earn their money through SDK sales, licensing and so on. In many cases production costs of consoles are even higher than the price for which they are actually being sold. I just wanted to make clear, it doesn't matter how many PSPs people are going to buy if they are not purchasing original game titles.
I certainly don't mean, own all the crap that's out there. But there are excellent titles available. I know enough people that have great titles like Final Fantasy Crisis Core and stuff like Silent Hill on their Memorystick, but don't own A SINGLE UMD for their units. Even the 1 original UMD that came with a bundle was sold for some extra cash. And unfortunately that's very common, at least over here. Sure the PSP has it's short coming, just as everything else, but it's a great piece of technology none the less. For me the PSP is a greater step forward in handheld gaming than the NDS. I just hope the PSP recovers from the whole situation or that a new iteration (just in case a PSP2 will ever be made) will not face the same dilemma.
Yoshi314 of course you are right that Sony hurts as well due to piracy, but it's considerably less than a third party developer would hurt. If you followed the last revenue report they didn't actually do bad in the last few months.
At least it's pretty unlikely that Sony would succumb to bankruptcy if the PSP would turn out to be a total piracy disaster and die a slow death. It's true that console developers earn their money through SDK sales, licensing and so on. In many cases production costs of consoles are even higher than the price for which they are actually being sold. I just wanted to make clear, it doesn't matter how many PSPs people are going to buy if they are not purchasing original game titles.
I certainly don't mean, own all the crap that's out there. But there are excellent titles available. I know enough people that have great titles like Final Fantasy Crisis Core and stuff like Silent Hill on their Memorystick, but don't own A SINGLE UMD for their units. Even the 1 original UMD that came with a bundle was sold for some extra cash. And unfortunately that's very common, at least over here. Sure the PSP has it's short coming, just as everything else, but it's a great piece of technology none the less. For me the PSP is a greater step forward in handheld gaming than the NDS. I just hope the PSP recovers from the whole situation or that a new iteration (just in case a PSP2 will ever be made) will not face the same dilemma.
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by ca36gtp - 2008-10-20 |
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» Shape up, Sony
I have CFW on my PSP-2000 so I can play the PS1 games Sony and third-party publishers REFUSE to make available over the PSN. I'd gladly pay the $5 a game to have official, non-buggy versions of my favorite PS1 games without needing to deal with Popsloader.
Homebrew and CFW exists because there is a demand for a bunch of features Sony won't get up off their lazy asses and make available. They call the PSP a multimedia center, but without CFW it barely supports any video formats, and the official RSS reader is awful.
The above examples are only a few of many. If Sony wants to discourage firmware hacking, they should spend half as much time creating desired features as they spend redesigning motherboards.
I have CFW on my PSP-2000 so I can play the PS1 games Sony and third-party publishers REFUSE to make available over the PSN. I'd gladly pay the $5 a game to have official, non-buggy versions of my favorite PS1 games without needing to deal with Popsloader.
Homebrew and CFW exists because there is a demand for a bunch of features Sony won't get up off their lazy asses and make available. They call the PSP a multimedia center, but without CFW it barely supports any video formats, and the official RSS reader is awful.
The above examples are only a few of many. If Sony wants to discourage firmware hacking, they should spend half as much time creating desired features as they spend redesigning motherboards.
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by blackthorn - 2008-10-20 |
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» well
Trying to insult me by calling me a 'pirate' in the face of the unscrupulous and downright deceitful practices of the free capitalist market is laughable in the extreme.
I really don't care less what the developers have to say about it in all honesty - over 90% of the crap they release for the system is utter rubbish anyway and they expect you to pay 'full price' for every one of them.
They can go to hell with that thinking.
I have no guilt about how I use my PSP. It's got CFW and I'm damn well happy that it does.
'Oh noes! He called me a PIWATE!'
Big deal. Who cares? Move on. Get a life.
Trying to insult me by calling me a 'pirate' in the face of the unscrupulous and downright deceitful practices of the free capitalist market is laughable in the extreme.
I really don't care less what the developers have to say about it in all honesty - over 90% of the crap they release for the system is utter rubbish anyway and they expect you to pay 'full price' for every one of them.
They can go to hell with that thinking.
I have no guilt about how I use my PSP. It's got CFW and I'm damn well happy that it does.
'Oh noes! He called me a PIWATE!'
Big deal. Who cares? Move on. Get a life.
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Re: XEnigmaX - 2008-10-20 |
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» The...
...flaws in your argument make me giggle.
If you wouldn't pay for the 90% of PSP games that are rubbish, then why would you download them? Rubbish is rubbish whether you buy it from Wally World or steal it from your neighbor.
I agree that better games need to be made, but arguing that you pirate because the games are bad is laughable and fails because of it.
...flaws in your argument make me giggle.
If you wouldn't pay for the 90% of PSP games that are rubbish, then why would you download them? Rubbish is rubbish whether you buy it from Wally World or steal it from your neighbor.
I agree that better games need to be made, but arguing that you pirate because the games are bad is laughable and fails because of it.
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by raggedjimmi - 2008-10-20 |
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» -
Personally I do believe it has an impact on Sony. But there is a flip side... I have an M33 PSP but no pirated games (Cave Story, 333mhz, rip own PS1 games), so without the M33 I wouldn't have a PSP now and my (albeit small) collection of 11 games.
It works both ways. I just hope they make a PSP2 though, and don't apply copious amounts of protection and get burned like EA.
Personally I do believe it has an impact on Sony. But there is a flip side... I have an M33 PSP but no pirated games (Cave Story, 333mhz, rip own PS1 games), so without the M33 I wouldn't have a PSP now and my (albeit small) collection of 11 games.
It works both ways. I just hope they make a PSP2 though, and don't apply copious amounts of protection and get burned like EA.
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by DarkXCloud - 2008-10-20 |
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» but...
but... not everyone downloads the latest cfw (me)
And what if you got about 5 PSPs?
but... not everyone downloads the latest cfw (me)
And what if you got about 5 PSPs?
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by TheLastGuitarHero - 2008-10-20 |
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» ...
These comments are full of win.
These comments are full of win.
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by Binary - 2008-10-20 |
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» TWINS
FTW
FTW
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by Acteon - 2008-10-20 |
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» Hmmm
I use the CFW I download on friends PSP's, so I think the figures are pretty skewed. I've purchased nearly 40 PSP games to date (just picked up Macross Ace Frontier - sooo awesome btw) but I use ISO's to try a game first (especially imports).
Bottom line, Sony have sold me a lot of games BECAUSE of CFW, but I'm probably in the minority.
Now that we have the PSP store, I hope Sony actually try and support and promote the unit with decent Demos.
The biggest threat to the PSP isn't CFW, it's Sony's crap marketing and inept handling of the platform. Hard to believe that the company that stole Nintendo's thunder could make such a mess of a platform launch.
Why do we only get a fraction of the games available for the platform here in the West? The format doesn't lack for varied titles, it just never gets them translated. Where's Taiko no Tatsujin? Gundam SEED? Comic Party Portable? Given the success of Hotel Dusk and Phoenix Wright, don't tell me there's no market for interactive novels. Where's Twinbee? Parodius?
At least we're getting DJ Max... (Finally!)
Get on the case Sony, we need more titles like Crisis Core, Force Unleashed, GoW, Phantasy Star etc. And get us some decent PS1 games on the store, you've got the damn library.
Rant over.
I use the CFW I download on friends PSP's, so I think the figures are pretty skewed. I've purchased nearly 40 PSP games to date (just picked up Macross Ace Frontier - sooo awesome btw) but I use ISO's to try a game first (especially imports).
Bottom line, Sony have sold me a lot of games BECAUSE of CFW, but I'm probably in the minority.
Now that we have the PSP store, I hope Sony actually try and support and promote the unit with decent Demos.
The biggest threat to the PSP isn't CFW, it's Sony's crap marketing and inept handling of the platform. Hard to believe that the company that stole Nintendo's thunder could make such a mess of a platform launch.
Why do we only get a fraction of the games available for the platform here in the West? The format doesn't lack for varied titles, it just never gets them translated. Where's Taiko no Tatsujin? Gundam SEED? Comic Party Portable? Given the success of Hotel Dusk and Phoenix Wright, don't tell me there's no market for interactive novels. Where's Twinbee? Parodius?
At least we're getting DJ Max... (Finally!)
Get on the case Sony, we need more titles like Crisis Core, Force Unleashed, GoW, Phantasy Star etc. And get us some decent PS1 games on the store, you've got the damn library.
Rant over.
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by safh1 - 2008-10-20 |
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» no threat
CFW's are deffinately not a threat to sony, in fact, they've helped sony in a way.
For example, take the RSS function, if I remember correctly, it was a homebrew first, and that gave sony the idea to impliment it into an official fw.
Or Playing PS1 games, it was originaly a homebrew emulator, but sony saw that people wanted to play PS1 on their PSP's so they integrated that into a official fw (but thanks to CFw's we dont have to pay to play Ps1 games we already own).
And last, without homebrew, i think people would stop playing their PSP's because the games for psp are so short and people get bored of them realy quickly.
What I'm waiting for now is sony to help the homebrew scene, because in a way, we have helped sony create features for their firmware (RSS, PS1 etc) and we get nothing in return from sony.
CFW's are deffinately not a threat to sony, in fact, they've helped sony in a way.
For example, take the RSS function, if I remember correctly, it was a homebrew first, and that gave sony the idea to impliment it into an official fw.
Or Playing PS1 games, it was originaly a homebrew emulator, but sony saw that people wanted to play PS1 on their PSP's so they integrated that into a official fw (but thanks to CFw's we dont have to pay to play Ps1 games we already own).
And last, without homebrew, i think people would stop playing their PSP's because the games for psp are so short and people get bored of them realy quickly.
What I'm waiting for now is sony to help the homebrew scene, because in a way, we have helped sony create features for their firmware (RSS, PS1 etc) and we get nothing in return from sony.
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by _YOUR_MOM_ - 2008-10-20 |
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» .
If [Insert game dev here] wasn't a díck for releasing games in [insert region here] and delay 9000 years to get it over [your region here]
That would be a small help, if you take a look at playasia. You 'll notice that some/most of the games that has a small note. Something like "this will not be shipped to xxx"
Also stop giving some random release dates, where is our Gran Turismo? I remember that before the launch of the psp that every poster had that ad on it...
We're still missing good games on the psp, Devil May Cry, Zone of the Enders, Soul Calibur, (a real) street fighter
And some real online games, I don't want a guy that is just 2 meters removed of me to play some games and also not that xlink or whatever shít.
Registration has alway been a hell to me, simplify it...
Other that that iso's are perfect... they can be hacked (manhunt) they can be translated (mhp2g) they can be changed (undub FFCC, EA games music)
They has faster loading times, less noise, no read errors, no fear for dead laser, ....
If [Insert game dev here] wasn't a díck for releasing games in [insert region here] and delay 9000 years to get it over [your region here]
That would be a small help, if you take a look at playasia. You 'll notice that some/most of the games that has a small note. Something like "this will not be shipped to xxx"
Also stop giving some random release dates, where is our Gran Turismo? I remember that before the launch of the psp that every poster had that ad on it...
We're still missing good games on the psp, Devil May Cry, Zone of the Enders, Soul Calibur, (a real) street fighter
And some real online games, I don't want a guy that is just 2 meters removed of me to play some games and also not that xlink or whatever shít.
Registration has alway been a hell to me, simplify it...
Other that that iso's are perfect... they can be hacked (manhunt) they can be translated (mhp2g) they can be changed (undub FFCC, EA games music)
They has faster loading times, less noise, no read errors, no fear for dead laser, ....
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by Illmatic - 2008-10-20 |
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» The article is a joke
The whole article and the statement by Alek is a joke.
The presumption that every single cfw that is used is coming from their website is just laughable, just as the "guessed" amount of PSP with cfw. Let's not forget that there are sources like torrent,emule and sites like 'PSPUPDATES" which spread these cfw's as well. Also, you only have to download a cfw once and then spread it to friends or the more scrupulous people make money modifying other PSP's.
In some asian countries PSP units are sold premodified, companies that sell legit games are complaining about bad PSP software sales because other stores are offering downloaded iso's for around 10% of the originals price.
So let's stop downplaying everything, there is a big piracy problem with the PSP. And Alek saying that it has nothing to do with cfw's is utterly nonsense, maybe he's living in denial. I'm working as a 3d Artist in a local outsourcing company, we receive projects from big time companies who are short in man power or to speed up development (we could be compared to freelancers).
Last year we were supposed to work on 2 PSP titles which both got canceled due to the developer reconsidering. This hardly happens to the 360,PS3 and PC titles we are working on. While Sony is nicely selling their Units, game developers are thinking 3 times over to develop anything for a piracy plagued handheld.
Some statements in the comments were just utterly silly, CFW did help Sony sell handhelds no question to that. But the majority of games is coming from third party developers that pay license and royalty to Sony. Appealing to the user to not download illegal software is a waste of time. If Sony wanted to do something they could have already done so.How about paying Dark Alex a nice sum to stop developing cfw's, maybe make him part of the Firmware development team to make it more secure.
But as I see it, as long as Sony doesn't bleed it's ok to them. Because Sony is selling their PSP, it just lacks games and that is the consumers problem and fault.
How I see it...The consumer keeps himself shooting into his own foot and then complains that he can't walk.
The whole article and the statement by Alek is a joke.
The presumption that every single cfw that is used is coming from their website is just laughable, just as the "guessed" amount of PSP with cfw. Let's not forget that there are sources like torrent,emule and sites like 'PSPUPDATES" which spread these cfw's as well. Also, you only have to download a cfw once and then spread it to friends or the more scrupulous people make money modifying other PSP's.
In some asian countries PSP units are sold premodified, companies that sell legit games are complaining about bad PSP software sales because other stores are offering downloaded iso's for around 10% of the originals price.
So let's stop downplaying everything, there is a big piracy problem with the PSP. And Alek saying that it has nothing to do with cfw's is utterly nonsense, maybe he's living in denial. I'm working as a 3d Artist in a local outsourcing company, we receive projects from big time companies who are short in man power or to speed up development (we could be compared to freelancers).
Last year we were supposed to work on 2 PSP titles which both got canceled due to the developer reconsidering. This hardly happens to the 360,PS3 and PC titles we are working on. While Sony is nicely selling their Units, game developers are thinking 3 times over to develop anything for a piracy plagued handheld.
Some statements in the comments were just utterly silly, CFW did help Sony sell handhelds no question to that. But the majority of games is coming from third party developers that pay license and royalty to Sony. Appealing to the user to not download illegal software is a waste of time. If Sony wanted to do something they could have already done so.How about paying Dark Alex a nice sum to stop developing cfw's, maybe make him part of the Firmware development team to make it more secure.
But as I see it, as long as Sony doesn't bleed it's ok to them. Because Sony is selling their PSP, it just lacks games and that is the consumers problem and fault.
How I see it...The consumer keeps himself shooting into his own foot and then complains that he can't walk.
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Re: FreePlay - 2008-10-21 |
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|
» ...
He didn't ignore the unofficial sources, dude. Read the damn post.
He didn't ignore the unofficial sources, dude. Read the damn post.
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by PT-X - 2008-10-21 |
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» Agreed
akadewboy I agreed with u mate.....geez...
akadewboy I agreed with u mate.....geez...
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Re: iamback(unregistered) - 2008-10-21 |
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» lol
Why is everyone talking about Sony? Sony doesn't make PSPs. PLAYSTATION does. Sheesh; you people are idiots. Win!!!11 pwn1! noobz. I like RAPZ..!!!
[retraction: sorry guys, just wanted to see what it's like being a moron. Not as fun as I though it'd be. I wonder why so many people insist on being idiots then]
Why is everyone talking about Sony? Sony doesn't make PSPs. PLAYSTATION does. Sheesh; you people are idiots. Win!!!11 pwn1! noobz. I like RAPZ..!!!
[retraction: sorry guys, just wanted to see what it's like being a moron. Not as fun as I though it'd be. I wonder why so many people insist on being idiots then]
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by gehx75 - 2008-10-21 |
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» buy...isn't that a 4 letter word?
i own 4 or 5 psp's and have never bought a game
in the 1 and 0 realm, i'm pro-theft and anti-waste.
y purchase for myself what others will surely buy......
i own 4 or 5 psp's and have never bought a game
in the 1 and 0 realm, i'm pro-theft and anti-waste.
y purchase for myself what others will surely buy......
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by Sinncloud - 2008-10-21 |
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» a winrar is me
hellz yeah pirated games ftw
hellz yeah pirated games ftw
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by m1gx - 2008-10-21 |
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» Alex works for sony
As I stated before DAX works for sony marketing
I don't think we can rely on network update statistic.
Most of gamers asks if a new psp can be customize before buying.
As I stated before DAX works for sony marketing
I don't think we can rely on network update statistic.
Most of gamers asks if a new psp can be customize before buying.
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by nubz69 - 2008-10-21 |
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|
» in response to shogunu
"3.71 has more than 300.000 downloads on QJ, for example. Add to that the dark-alex numbers (about 150k maximum value) and you have about half a million downloads "
you make the mistake in thinking that # of downloads= # of PSP's running custom firmwares. That is a fallacy, many of those downloads are from the same users who were installing custom firmwares from the beginning. Even if each download was installed on a different PSP there are PSP sales are 41 million (as of August 20, 2008). That means that only 1/82 or 1.2% of PSPs are running custom firmware. Even if that number is on the conservative side you are still dealing with a very small fraction of psp owners. I also want to point out that even people with hacked PSPs still buy some games.
Companies will never stop trying to make closed systems because a closed system means you have a much larger control. Even if a system is eventually hacked the initial barrier increases the amount of revenue the company makes.
"3.71 has more than 300.000 downloads on QJ, for example. Add to that the dark-alex numbers (about 150k maximum value) and you have about half a million downloads "
you make the mistake in thinking that # of downloads= # of PSP's running custom firmwares. That is a fallacy, many of those downloads are from the same users who were installing custom firmwares from the beginning. Even if each download was installed on a different PSP there are PSP sales are 41 million (as of August 20, 2008). That means that only 1/82 or 1.2% of PSPs are running custom firmware. Even if that number is on the conservative side you are still dealing with a very small fraction of psp owners. I also want to point out that even people with hacked PSPs still buy some games.
Companies will never stop trying to make closed systems because a closed system means you have a much larger control. Even if a system is eventually hacked the initial barrier increases the amount of revenue the company makes.
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by ultimax - 2008-10-21 |
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» Omg
What the hell every the time ISO corrects it into a perfeclt legal DVD.
What the hell every the time ISO corrects it into a perfeclt legal DVD.
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by maddehaan - 2008-10-21 |
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» Why does Sony care about CFW?
Because they have developers build new features for free and if it sticks with the bigger audience, they build it into their OFW.
Not rocketscience.
Because they have developers build new features for free and if it sticks with the bigger audience, they build it into their OFW.
Not rocketscience.
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by cuizable - 2008-10-22 |
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» If there were no CFW;
- I would only have Loco Roco, GTA : LCS and PES 2008 in original copies like I do now. I would never buy the other games because they weren't worth the money in my opinion.
- When you DL a game you have the chance to see that if you would buy it or not. And if you really like it you will go buy the original version to support the developers that create games that you like. I personally bought the games mentioned above while I'm on CFW, and had no regrets about it. If the games were affordable for a larger spectrum of people it would take the badness of paying for a ***tty game out and they would sell more games in numbers. Eventually they would profit more or the same, not less.
- Sure piracy fills butterflies in the stomachs of good intentioned people, but otherwise they wouldn't ahve a chance to enjoy the game, maybe even recommend it to people who can afford an original game copy.
Thanks for reading. Sorry for the loss of 3 minutes of your lives..
- I would only have Loco Roco, GTA : LCS and PES 2008 in original copies like I do now. I would never buy the other games because they weren't worth the money in my opinion.
- When you DL a game you have the chance to see that if you would buy it or not. And if you really like it you will go buy the original version to support the developers that create games that you like. I personally bought the games mentioned above while I'm on CFW, and had no regrets about it. If the games were affordable for a larger spectrum of people it would take the badness of paying for a ***tty game out and they would sell more games in numbers. Eventually they would profit more or the same, not less.
- Sure piracy fills butterflies in the stomachs of good intentioned people, but otherwise they wouldn't ahve a chance to enjoy the game, maybe even recommend it to people who can afford an original game copy.
Thanks for reading. Sorry for the loss of 3 minutes of your lives..
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