Posted Nov 26, 2008 at 11:16AM by Isaac C.
Listed in:
Opinions & Analysis
Tags:
Epic Games,
GameStop,
eBay,
Michael Capps
Ó
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 One of the more heated issues
in the video game industry right now is the thrust of some studios to
fight video game rentals and second hand game sales.For this end, some games offer once-only DLC for games fresh off shelves. Perhaps the most ludicrous move put forward was from Michael Capps of Epic Games: I've talked to some developers who are saying "If you want to fight the final boss you go online and pay USD 20, but if you bought the retail version you got it for free". GameStop tosses in its two cents saying that fighting video game rentals and second hand games sales will only end up hurting gamers, and even sales of new games. Their point is that gamers need the "residual value" of their old games to be able to buy new games: Anything that limits the transferability of a game from consumer to a friend of theirs, to selling it on eBay, to exchanging it and trading it with one of their friends, or selling it back to GameStop – I think is a bone of contention with the consumer. [...] We will give out approximately $800 million in credits this year – trade-in credits that will go toward the purchase of new video games. The consumer, oftentimes and especially now, needs that residual value from those games as a trade-in to be able to afford a new video game. Related Articles:
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25 Comments
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by DrDeath91 - 2008-11-26 |
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» I dont understand this article
Is it about the thing were you have to buy the end of the game if you rent it... the only point i see in renting a game is because most are beat in less then 20 hours making buying it a waste of $60... Or is this about them trying to stop GAMESTOP from selling used, game devs dont really lose money either way, if they do then they should think about what a gamer wants more in a game...
Is it about the thing were you have to buy the end of the game if you rent it... the only point i see in renting a game is because most are beat in less then 20 hours making buying it a waste of $60... Or is this about them trying to stop GAMESTOP from selling used, game devs dont really lose money either way, if they do then they should think about what a gamer wants more in a game...
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Re: Isaac C. (QJ. NET Staff) - 2008-11-26 |
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» Hm
Some studios have started trying to limit renting and selling pre-owned games. The theory is that if they do that, they'll end up selling more games. GameStop doesn't like what they're doing and says they'll actually hurt sales of new games.
Some studios have started trying to limit renting and selling pre-owned games. The theory is that if they do that, they'll end up selling more games. GameStop doesn't like what they're doing and says they'll actually hurt sales of new games.
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Re: DrDeath91 - 2008-11-26 |
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» Thank You
i get it now
i get it now
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by mysterysword - 2008-11-26 |
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» .
GameStop's right. In today's world, people want to go for the cheapest method. Making people pay to finish a game would make them find other methods of obtaining what they wish (even through illegal means), or simply, they won't buy the game...
GameStop's right. In today's world, people want to go for the cheapest method. Making people pay to finish a game would make them find other methods of obtaining what they wish (even through illegal means), or simply, they won't buy the game...
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Re: ISOHaven - 2008-11-26 |
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» WTF!?!?!?!?!
In addition to that, the administration alone of the new "split off" content and the keys to control it will either raise the cost of their games or lower the overall quality.
It's lose-lose all the way around for them if they choose to go this route.
In addition to that, the administration alone of the new "split off" content and the keys to control it will either raise the cost of their games or lower the overall quality.
It's lose-lose all the way around for them if they choose to go this route.
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Re: kupomogli - 2008-11-26 |
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» What the hell are you talking about?
If you go to Gamestop right now and look at ANY game that's used, you'll find that they're 5 dollars less than the new game. That means you're saving 5 dollars on a game that's scratched all to hell AND the gaming companies are seeing none of that.
If you ask me, to help gaming companies gain more money so they can put it into creating better games and also get a better condition game, not paying the extra five dollars is stupid.
Even though there are other game stores out there, there few and far between. Almost all the bigger game stores have been devoured by Gamestop to the point that the company has become a huge monopoly. You'll almost go anywhere and find just a Gamestop. Infact, there are quite a few within 30 miles from me.
Obviously Gamestop would say people shouldn't try and cut out second hand games because they ass rape you with their used game prices and then sell for almost full price. They get 100% of that 44.99 or 54.99 game that you end up buying used. If Gamestop sold the games for maybe 10 or 15 dollars less then it'd be worth buying used, but not five.
If you go to Gamestop right now and look at ANY game that's used, you'll find that they're 5 dollars less than the new game. That means you're saving 5 dollars on a game that's scratched all to hell AND the gaming companies are seeing none of that.
If you ask me, to help gaming companies gain more money so they can put it into creating better games and also get a better condition game, not paying the extra five dollars is stupid.
Even though there are other game stores out there, there few and far between. Almost all the bigger game stores have been devoured by Gamestop to the point that the company has become a huge monopoly. You'll almost go anywhere and find just a Gamestop. Infact, there are quite a few within 30 miles from me.
Obviously Gamestop would say people shouldn't try and cut out second hand games because they ass rape you with their used game prices and then sell for almost full price. They get 100% of that 44.99 or 54.99 game that you end up buying used. If Gamestop sold the games for maybe 10 or 15 dollars less then it'd be worth buying used, but not five.
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Re: ISOHaven - 2008-11-26 |
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» WTF!?!?!?!?!
You assume used game buyers will magicly switch to buying new games.
As for my post on COST I was reffering to the additional COST of making a game that required DLC admin that otherwise would not.
You assume used game buyers will magicly switch to buying new games.
As for my post on COST I was reffering to the additional COST of making a game that required DLC admin that otherwise would not.
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Re: GaveUpTomorrow - 2008-11-26 |
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» ...
Most of Gamestop's used base prices may be $5 less than new...but Gamestop also rolls on coupons every week that give you 20% and sometimes 25% off used games. If you have an edge card as well, you can get a $55 used game for about $36...which is almost $25 less than new. That is worth the savings. This is the only time I buy from gamestop, unless they are running a b2g1 deal. Either way, buying used saves loads of money when done right.
Most of Gamestop's used base prices may be $5 less than new...but Gamestop also rolls on coupons every week that give you 20% and sometimes 25% off used games. If you have an edge card as well, you can get a $55 used game for about $36...which is almost $25 less than new. That is worth the savings. This is the only time I buy from gamestop, unless they are running a b2g1 deal. Either way, buying used saves loads of money when done right.
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Re: jagrege - 2008-11-26 |
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» Game Crazy
has cheaper used games.
has cheaper used games.
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Re: mysterysword - 2008-11-26 |
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» .
Thinking economically, would selling only new games help out? There's still no currency going to the regular people or many video game stores, just to the publishers. High budgets don't always mean better games.
Thinking economically, would selling only new games help out? There's still no currency going to the regular people or many video game stores, just to the publishers. High budgets don't always mean better games.
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by ISOHaven - 2008-11-26 |
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» WTF!?!?!?!?!
Basicly, the video game industry is anti-freedom. They want CONTROL.
This will be a major shot in the ass for them and no court system in our free world will be on their side.
This will get very interesting!
Basicly, the video game industry is anti-freedom. They want CONTROL.
This will be a major shot in the ass for them and no court system in our free world will be on their side.
This will get very interesting!
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Re: Megamjm21 - 2008-11-26 |
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» ......
i agree most major company's have lost interest of what the PLAYERS or CONSUMERS want and think they know best for us.......
i agree most major company's have lost interest of what the PLAYERS or CONSUMERS want and think they know best for us.......
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Re: papajag - 2008-11-26 |
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» True but...
You gotta think from their point of view too. They work for money and not for the gamers or consumers. Nowadays games aren't as easy to make. It's very time consuming and budget draining to make. Because they get sued by every motherf***** who wants to make easy buck companies has to take advantage of every opportunity. An example of this is Squeenix who sucks in people to buy anything FF7 and of course going multiplatform.
You gotta think from their point of view too. They work for money and not for the gamers or consumers. Nowadays games aren't as easy to make. It's very time consuming and budget draining to make. Because they get sued by every motherf***** who wants to make easy buck companies has to take advantage of every opportunity. An example of this is Squeenix who sucks in people to buy anything FF7 and of course going multiplatform.
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Re: mysterysword - 2008-11-26 |
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» .
Yeah, they do work for money, and that's acceptable as long as it's not only for money. However, it can get out of hand, when it becomes all about money.
Yeah, they do work for money, and that's acceptable as long as it's not only for money. However, it can get out of hand, when it becomes all about money.
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by mysterysword - 2008-11-26 |
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» .
And something else about used games. At GameStop, if you beat 'em within 7 days, you can return them for full price. You can't do that with new games (unless you haven't even opened them, that is).
And something else about used games. At GameStop, if you beat 'em within 7 days, you can return them for full price. You can't do that with new games (unless you haven't even opened them, that is).
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by Arm73 - 2008-11-26 |
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» I totally agree with [b]kupomogli[/b]
I don't agree to the solution, but I agree that there is a problem with used games.
I totally agree with [b]kupomogli[/b] by the way, he's got it totally right.
Developers spend hundreds of thousands of $$ to make games, and when I go to Gamestop and such and I find out that a used copy of a fairly recent game is only less than the new one, it pisses me off.
They make a huge profit over used games, 100% of thesale price, compared of the marginal 8 - 10 $ they make on the new ones.
Developers and publisher don't see a penny off used game sales, which is not OK.
They work hard and invest a lot of capital to make games, and the Gamestop rippoffs are just wrong.
I tried to sell some of my used games there, and they were offering me peanuts in return.
I'll never buy form them again, considering how much money they make off the skins of us customers and developers alike.
They should prevent shops for selling used games at almost full price, that should be declared illegal, and I would go to " at least 1/2 price " policy.
If developers start to cut off content from games on the other hand , it would be a bad thing for the industry altogether, in fact I believe in the freedom to buy or sell games privately ( on ebay and the likes for example ), not being able to do that would be like depriving us from our freedom of speech.
But to hell with gamestop, they should be really be forbidden to do what they do.
I hope some smart politician does something about it before software houses beguines to practice far drastic solutions.
I don't agree to the solution, but I agree that there is a problem with used games.
I totally agree with [b]kupomogli[/b] by the way, he's got it totally right.
Developers spend hundreds of thousands of $$ to make games, and when I go to Gamestop and such and I find out that a used copy of a fairly recent game is only less than the new one, it pisses me off.
They make a huge profit over used games, 100% of thesale price, compared of the marginal 8 - 10 $ they make on the new ones.
Developers and publisher don't see a penny off used game sales, which is not OK.
They work hard and invest a lot of capital to make games, and the Gamestop rippoffs are just wrong.
I tried to sell some of my used games there, and they were offering me peanuts in return.
I'll never buy form them again, considering how much money they make off the skins of us customers and developers alike.
They should prevent shops for selling used games at almost full price, that should be declared illegal, and I would go to " at least 1/2 price " policy.
If developers start to cut off content from games on the other hand , it would be a bad thing for the industry altogether, in fact I believe in the freedom to buy or sell games privately ( on ebay and the likes for example ), not being able to do that would be like depriving us from our freedom of speech.
But to hell with gamestop, they should be really be forbidden to do what they do.
I hope some smart politician does something about it before software houses beguines to practice far drastic solutions.
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Re: ISOHaven - 2008-11-26 |
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» WTF!?!?!?!?!
The same thing happens with DVD movies....Music CDs.... PAWN SHOPS.
So should all those sales be illegal as well?
The same thing happens with DVD movies....Music CDs.... PAWN SHOPS.
So should all those sales be illegal as well?
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Re: Arm73 - 2008-11-26 |
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» !?!?!?!?!
No, I didn't say make it illegal, I said make it illegal to sell used items at almost the full price of a new one.
They are used, should be sold for 1/2 price, or at least have a 35% discount.
As kupomogli said, we should really spend the extra $5 and get it new.
This way they(gamestop or such) will understand that the real greedy ones are the retailers them selfs, which don't invest money but only collect it.
No, I didn't say make it illegal, I said make it illegal to sell used items at almost the full price of a new one.
They are used, should be sold for 1/2 price, or at least have a 35% discount.
As kupomogli said, we should really spend the extra $5 and get it new.
This way they(gamestop or such) will understand that the real greedy ones are the retailers them selfs, which don't invest money but only collect it.
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Re: xploren - 2008-11-26 |
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» Plus...
GameStop buys used games and systems for really cheap and sells them for a lot more. Take for instance a DS. They buy it for like 20 bucks, and sell it at 70. I agree with Arm73.
GameStop buys used games and systems for really cheap and sells them for a lot more. Take for instance a DS. They buy it for like 20 bucks, and sell it at 70. I agree with Arm73.
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Re: ISOHaven - 2008-11-28 |
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» WTF!?!?!?!?!
"I said make it illegal to sell used items at almost the full price of a new one."
And? I said, "So should all those sales be illegal as well?"
Do you see the word SALES? All those items are sold close to NEW price as well. So can you please answer the question?
It's real easy for someone to whine and cry about prices when they feel they should have to pay them. How about you tell us WHY Gamestop shouldn't be allowed to be IN BUSINESS and MAKE MONEY. Then explain why all other consumer products are restricted from this. Then explain to us all the magic alternative you've come up with that keeps Gamestop's profits up so they can remain in business.
"I said make it illegal to sell used items at almost the full price of a new one."
And? I said, "So should all those sales be illegal as well?"
Do you see the word SALES? All those items are sold close to NEW price as well. So can you please answer the question?
It's real easy for someone to whine and cry about prices when they feel they should have to pay them. How about you tell us WHY Gamestop shouldn't be allowed to be IN BUSINESS and MAKE MONEY. Then explain why all other consumer products are restricted from this. Then explain to us all the magic alternative you've come up with that keeps Gamestop's profits up so they can remain in business.
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Re: Arm73 - 2008-11-29 |
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» ISOHaven .....
Most of the times I agree with you and I even backed you up in some occasions, but let's agree to disagree on this one.
Practice like those of Gamestop are clearly hurting the business, not complementing, or enhancing it, they are downright thiefs.
As reported many times, they buy at very low prices and sell at much higher one.
Used games hurt the sales of new games, and buying used games at almost full retail new games price is downright stupid to begin with.
If let's say , I'd like to sell one or two of my own used games to you, at half price, I get half back of what I forked out and you get a game for half it's price, right ? It seems very profitable for both parts.
If I sell it for $15 to gamestop, and you buy it for $39.99 or more, tell me who's getting the best deal out of it ? Furthermore they sell used games side by side to new ones, and they even point it out to you in case you missed it when you get upfront to cash out, thus really affecting the sales.
What I think it's immoral, is not the sale of used items, but the clearly unfair prices and parasitic attitude toward the business the practice.
I have all the right to buy a used car, speacking of which, do you know how much money you loose if you buy a new one and sell it barely used even after only a week ? Thousands of $ of course .
Why, because the market is regulated by strict laws.
Why can't the same be done about videogames ?
And I never purchased a used DVD for more then $5 anyway, as of other 'used' goodies you might refer to I haven't the slightest idea, I don't shop for second hand anyway usually.
Here's another idea,maybe.
Why don't forbid bid chains to sell used games for at least six month after the original release ?
People eager to play the title will buy it new, while others wanting to save a few bucks must be willing to wait a bit.....I don't know, is a bit far fetched but I'd take [i]anything[/i] instead of cut down games.
That would be truly horrific.
Used games are hurting sales, that is an undeniable and verified fact.
Some day the industry will do something about it, I only hope is not going to be this crap about new games only downloadable staff.
That would hurt me. Gamestop will find other ways to make their profits anyway.
Most of the times I agree with you and I even backed you up in some occasions, but let's agree to disagree on this one.
Practice like those of Gamestop are clearly hurting the business, not complementing, or enhancing it, they are downright thiefs.
As reported many times, they buy at very low prices and sell at much higher one.
Used games hurt the sales of new games, and buying used games at almost full retail new games price is downright stupid to begin with.
If let's say , I'd like to sell one or two of my own used games to you, at half price, I get half back of what I forked out and you get a game for half it's price, right ? It seems very profitable for both parts.
If I sell it for $15 to gamestop, and you buy it for $39.99 or more, tell me who's getting the best deal out of it ? Furthermore they sell used games side by side to new ones, and they even point it out to you in case you missed it when you get upfront to cash out, thus really affecting the sales.
What I think it's immoral, is not the sale of used items, but the clearly unfair prices and parasitic attitude toward the business the practice.
I have all the right to buy a used car, speacking of which, do you know how much money you loose if you buy a new one and sell it barely used even after only a week ? Thousands of $ of course .
Why, because the market is regulated by strict laws.
Why can't the same be done about videogames ?
And I never purchased a used DVD for more then $5 anyway, as of other 'used' goodies you might refer to I haven't the slightest idea, I don't shop for second hand anyway usually.
Here's another idea,maybe.
Why don't forbid bid chains to sell used games for at least six month after the original release ?
People eager to play the title will buy it new, while others wanting to save a few bucks must be willing to wait a bit.....I don't know, is a bit far fetched but I'd take [i]anything[/i] instead of cut down games.
That would be truly horrific.
Used games are hurting sales, that is an undeniable and verified fact.
Some day the industry will do something about it, I only hope is not going to be this crap about new games only downloadable staff.
That would hurt me. Gamestop will find other ways to make their profits anyway.
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Re: ISOHaven - 2008-12-01 |
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» WTF!?!?!?!?!
I still need answers to my questions. Not just from you but from anyone that thinks used product is hurting the business.
"Practice like those of Gamestop are clearly hurting the business, not complementing, or enhancing it, they are downright thiefs."
Like I said before, that must include ALL used sources. eBay, Crags List, game trading companies, GARAGE SALES.
Used product has been around from DAY ONE and so far it has not hurt the business at all. Used sales is nothing new.
Plus that includes ALL USED CONSUMER PRODUCTS.
As for gamestop being thieves, that's an issue on it's own. What does their profit level have to do with this issue? Someone buying a used game should be the issue, not the price they paid. Which leads me to believe there's another issue on the table everyone is crying about and not the issue at hand.
There's no need to go much further until my questions are answered.
Also, here's a new one, USED and RENT are the same thing when you sell the used game back. So you also have to address game RENTALS which AGAIN have been around for a LONG LONG time. So also explain to us why GameFly should not be in business. Again, ANTI-AMERICAN.
I still need answers to my questions. Not just from you but from anyone that thinks used product is hurting the business.
"Practice like those of Gamestop are clearly hurting the business, not complementing, or enhancing it, they are downright thiefs."
Like I said before, that must include ALL used sources. eBay, Crags List, game trading companies, GARAGE SALES.
Used product has been around from DAY ONE and so far it has not hurt the business at all. Used sales is nothing new.
Plus that includes ALL USED CONSUMER PRODUCTS.
As for gamestop being thieves, that's an issue on it's own. What does their profit level have to do with this issue? Someone buying a used game should be the issue, not the price they paid. Which leads me to believe there's another issue on the table everyone is crying about and not the issue at hand.
There's no need to go much further until my questions are answered.
Also, here's a new one, USED and RENT are the same thing when you sell the used game back. So you also have to address game RENTALS which AGAIN have been around for a LONG LONG time. So also explain to us why GameFly should not be in business. Again, ANTI-AMERICAN.
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by ps3juggalo - 2008-11-26 |
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» Companies are Insanely Greedy!
Developers are too greedy & need to ask themselves if they want to sell 1 million games @ $59.99 for $60million OR 5 million games @ $34.99 for $175million???
Car companies invest a lot of money in making cars right? Should we not be able to sell USED CARS? How about car rentals? What happened to PRIVATE PROPERTY rights. Once a person buys a game it's theirs! They may play it, rent it, or sell it!
Some people will NEVER buy a brand new car, some will never / rarely buy a brand new game. But Gamestop is right this helps companies. Because people sell their games to Gamestop & use the store credits to BUY a brand new game. Just like a lot of people use the money they sell their cars for a down payment on a new car. GET IT ?!?
Finally, it's up to the game developers to make a game awesome enough that I want to buy brand new. I bought GTA IV brand new, I bought Little Big Planet Brand new. If the game looks great & is advertised & reviewed great I buy it. Other games I'll wait until it's used. But, that's why I have 80 Video games on my shelf (10 PS3 , 70 PS2) - Because the average price of my games are $20.
Developers are too greedy & need to ask themselves if they want to sell 1 million games @ $59.99 for $60million OR 5 million games @ $34.99 for $175million???
Car companies invest a lot of money in making cars right? Should we not be able to sell USED CARS? How about car rentals? What happened to PRIVATE PROPERTY rights. Once a person buys a game it's theirs! They may play it, rent it, or sell it!
Some people will NEVER buy a brand new car, some will never / rarely buy a brand new game. But Gamestop is right this helps companies. Because people sell their games to Gamestop & use the store credits to BUY a brand new game. Just like a lot of people use the money they sell their cars for a down payment on a new car. GET IT ?!?
Finally, it's up to the game developers to make a game awesome enough that I want to buy brand new. I bought GTA IV brand new, I bought Little Big Planet Brand new. If the game looks great & is advertised & reviewed great I buy it. Other games I'll wait until it's used. But, that's why I have 80 Video games on my shelf (10 PS3 , 70 PS2) - Because the average price of my games are $20.
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by Uplink - 2008-11-26 |
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» I agree
That renting and buying second hand is Hurting the industry (more than piracy I may add). I have to say tho its mainly because renting not second hand as much, and also the games current prices. TBH I would never look at a used game if the new ones where more like 39.99 and not 60 bucks. I currently buy all my games on ebay tho because I can get better discounts on NEW games I never buy second hand unless its super rare and the condition is mint.
That renting and buying second hand is Hurting the industry (more than piracy I may add). I have to say tho its mainly because renting not second hand as much, and also the games current prices. TBH I would never look at a used game if the new ones where more like 39.99 and not 60 bucks. I currently buy all my games on ebay tho because I can get better discounts on NEW games I never buy second hand unless its super rare and the condition is mint.
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by _YOUR_MOM_ - 2008-11-26 |
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» I've the purfekt solution
The point is, make perfect games with lots of eyecandy and a high replay value.
You won't end up in seeing your game being rented or second handed. end of story.
Q-U-A-L-I-L-T-Y
The point is, make perfect games with lots of eyecandy and a high replay value.
You won't end up in seeing your game being rented or second handed. end of story.
Q-U-A-L-I-L-T-Y
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(3)Macintosh
(9)MAME
(23)MGT Sam Coupé
(7)MSX
(52)Neo Geo
(116)Nintendo 64
(127)Nintendo NES
(60)Odyssey
(1)PC-8801
(6)PC-9801
(7)PlayStation
(26)PSP
(44)ScummVM
(21)Sega Gamegear & Master System
(37)Sega Genesis Megadrive
(52)Super Nintendo SNES
(87)Tandy Color Computer/ Dragon
(1)Thomson MO5
(4)Thomson T07-70
(8)TI-92
(7)TI-99
(3)Turbo Grafx 16 & PC Engine
(54)Vectrex
(4)Virtual Boy
(0)Wonderswan
(30)X86
(1)ZX Spectrum
(10)ZX81 Sinclair
(7)
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